Please Critique My Clips

[Smitty]

I've been working on an overdrive voicing for the Blueverb and I would appreciate it if you guys would listen to a few clips and give me some constructive feedback.

I've noticed that this is a particularly supportive forum, which is really great, but don't be shy about substantive critcism.

My target was RF tone. The Blueverb will not sound exactly like the ODS for a few reasons.

1) Single channel amp capable of clean sounds as well

2) One less gain stage

3) Buffered tone stack

The page is at:

http://www.bluesamps.com/clips_blues.asp

The clips at the bottom labeled NEW are the ones. I really appreciate your help.

Smitty

[Normster]

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I loved the "Big Ben" clean clips!

Clips 15B, 16B, and 17B were certainly in the Dumble ballpark. I find it hard to tell if it's the amp or the player when it comes to nailing the RF tone. I've played an amp that Dogears nailed RF with and I couldn't even get close.

[Luthierwnc]

Nice clips!

For a RF tone, it sounds like you are getting a little more power amp distortion than you need. And maybe a little more speaker warmth than RF too. I'd be curious what your plate B+ is. My experience is that above 450 is better.

Skip

[Darkbluemurder]

Smitty,

Thanks for bringing this into discussion. I read about the Blueverb in TQR and thought it was a very interesting design which not just rehashed things already done in the past. I like the concept and feel it has some truth to it based on various designs I tried.

I can see some parallels to the ODS lead architecture which controls gain at least at four points: Volume (between 1st and 2nd gain stages, OD input trim (between 2nd and 3rd), OD drive (between 3rd and 4th) and OD level (between 4th and PI). So the Blueverb is basically a gain stage less and a post PI cross line master volume added.

I liked the rock clips in particular - very EVHish and not far away from a Wreck. Never heard sounds like this from a Fender based amp even though the Wrecks are basically Fenders with a gain stage added. The information that is missing is how all the controls were set and in particular, how loud the amp was set up to obtain that tone. My feeling is that despite of the two Master volumes it was very very loud.

I will check the new Blues clips at home (they weren't on yesterday).

[Smitty]

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I loved the "Big Ben" clean clips! :lol:

Clips 15B, 16B, and 17B were certainly in the Dumble ballpark. I find it hard to tell if it's the amp or the player when it comes to nailing the RF tone. I've played an amp that Dogears nailed RF with and I couldn't even get close.

Yeah. I like the Big Ben a lot. Good open back speaker for that Vibroverb kind of thing.

I agree about the player thing. I've been using Ric for a while. Could you compare those clips to the one labeled 'Robbing Ford' and tell me if you think I'm getting closer? Using a D-style tone stack and rejiggering the deep switch (really a low end cut when switched down) made a difference to my ears.

Thanks,

Smitty

[Smitty]

Nice clips!

For a RF tone, it sounds like you are getting a little more power amp distortion than you need. And maybe a little more speaker warmth than RF too. I'd be curious what your plate B+ is. My experience is that above 450 is better.

Skip

Thanks for the feedback. By speaker warmth do you mean breakup or frequency response (darker)? I probably should have used a Tonespotter which is pretty close to a 1265. I think a Red Fang is a little darker.

One thing that I notice is that overdrive often sounds smoother with the speaker in a closed back cab. The cab I used has a ducted port. Much more suspension than a Dumble open back.

B+ is at 475 volts right now. I'm using very accurate copies of old Schumacher transformers made by Heyboer. I'm getting a 10% bump in B+ because of the 110V to 120V thing. I'm thinking of dropping that a little.

Smitty

[Darkbluemurder]

I like the clips. Great playing BTW!

[Icetech]

Man, who makes that big ben? I LOVE the tone on that...

Im sure everyone is different but the redfang clips make my head hurt like nails ona chalkboard... just something bout them.. too tight or something:)

[Bob-I]

Funny, I read this as "Critique my CLIPS" not the amps tone.

What I listened for is the clips ability to demo the amps tone, not the tone itself. Since I don't know your amps it's a little difficult, but I listened for obvious glitches/farting out etc. They all sound great to me.

I might suggest creating clips using a variety of guitars, I.E. a Strat and a Les Paul type. Also vary the volume settings on the guitar to demonstrate how the amp responds to dynamics.

Nice sounding amps. Good luck.

[Smitty]

Smitty,

Thanks for bringing this into discussion. I read about the Blueverb in TQR and thought it was a very interesting design which not just rehashed things already done in the past. I like the concept and feel it has some truth to it based on various designs I tried. I can see some parallels to the ODS lead architecture which controls gain at least at four points: Volume (between 1st and 2nd gain stages, OD input trim (between 2nd and 3rd), OD drive (between 3rd and 4th) and OD level (between 4th and PI). So the Blueverb is basically a gain stage less and a post PI cross line master volume added.

Yes. That's correct.

Input -> Gain Stage -> Buffer -> Simplified D-style Tone Stack -> Volume -> Gain Stage -> Drive Control (Volume) -> Gain Stage -> Pre Master -> PI -> Post Master -> Output

I liked the rock clips in particular - very EVHish and not far away from a Wreck. Never heard sounds like this from a Fender based amp even though the Wrecks are basically Fenders with a gain stage added. The information that is missing is how all the controls were set and in particular, how loud the amp was set up to obtain that tone. My feeling is that despite of the two Master volumes it was very very loud.

For the Rock clips I used an old-style (Bassman/Plexi tone stack) standard voicing, EL34s, Bassman OT and Two Eminence Private Jacks in an open back combo cab. Both masters were hanging around 7 to 8 for most of that session. As a point of reference, the amp was probably as loud as a Super Reverb on 7.

I will check the new Blues clips at home (they weren't on yesterday).

I'll be interested to hear what you think.

Thanks,

Smitty

[Smitty]

Man, who makes that big ben? I LOVE the tone on that...

Eminence. Yeah it's a good speaker.

Im sure everyone is different but the redfang clips make my head hurt like nails ona chalkboard... just something bout them.. too tight or something:)

Tight = stiff sounding or something else?

Thanks,

Smitty

[Normster]

Could you compare those clips to the one labeled 'Robbing Ford' and tell me if you think I'm getting closer? Using a D-style tone stack and rejiggering the deep switch (really a low end cut when switched down) made a difference to my ears.

The Robbing Ford clip was great tone, but didn't seem to have that thick midrange complexity that Dumble is known for. Clip 17B really captured that midrange thing and had some nice harmonics but was just a bit congested. Clip 16B was much more open sounding but not quite as complex as 17B. Overall, a tone somewhere in between those two clips would probably nail it. I'm guessing 17B amp settings through an open back with RW&Bs would probably blow my skirt up pretty high.

[Smitty]

The Robbing Ford clip was great tone, but didn't seem to have that thick midrange complexity that Dumble is known for. Clip 17B really captured that midrange thing and had some nice harmonics but was just a bit congested. Clip 16B was much more open sounding but not quite as complex as 17B. Overall, a tone somewhere in between those two clips would probably nail it. I'm guessing 17B amp settings through an open back with RW&Bs would probably blow my skirt up pretty high. :lol:

Excellent feedback, Normster. BTW, the RW&B is my preferred speaker these days.

Smitty

[Darkbluemurder]

I will check the new Blues clips at home (they weren't on yesterday).

I'll be interested to hear what you think.

Thanks,

Smitty

My favorites are 15a and 17a. Both sound very rich to me. In particular I like the punchy low end in 15a and the feedback in 17a. But as I said all the clips sound very good - nothing in them not to like.
They sound a lot better than many clips on competitor's sites. As I said I was floored by the rock clips but the clean clips sound equally good. Maybe you could put on the website which tube and OT configuration and which voicing was used.

Hope that helps
Cheers
Stephan