please recommend a good alternative to "Tolex Glue"

[tkc58]

Hey guys,
The only reason I'm asking this question is because I NEED to hold the cost of things down as much as I can, or I'd just go ahead and buy the h2o as is so often praised on this forum ............. In a few weeks or months I hope to get to build my cabs and racks so please recommend a good alternative to "Tolex Glue", The regular "Tolex Glue" is water based and I want to stay with a water based product if at all possible. I'll be building 4 large (almost 4x12 sized) 2x12 cabs as well as a couple of rack cases, a 6 space and 8 space so I figure I need to buy a gallon of glue.
I have been told "Wilsonart H2O" is very good BUT the gallon size is $79 at my local Lowe's store. That's more then the Tolex Glue which is $49 plus shipping at the cheapest place I've found online (the other online source it's $64 a gallon.) I can get the nonflammable Dap Weldwood contact cement in the green can for $39 a gallon BUT It's NOT very well thought of and I'm afraid to take a chance on it.
I've also read online where some have used a water based contact cement on the edges and "flooring Adhesive" OR "Carpet Adhesive" on the larger flat areas, IF you have used the method PLEASE share exactly what you used and how you used it AND how well it worked OR did NOT work.

[sepulchre]

The best thing I've found is Better Bond Tolex Adhesive, but it Is water based. I tried a bunch of other types and they didn't work worth a flip even though I followed the instruction religiously.

[tkc58]

The best thing I've found is Better Bond Tolex Adhesive, but it Is water based. I tried a bunch of other types and they didn't work worth a flip even though I followed the instruction religiously.

Yes, that's the $49 gallon one I mentioned. Plus $17 shipping. Custom Pak Adhesives sales it to them and antique electronics supply Custom Pak told me themselves. antique electronics supply sells it for about $65 gallon these days plus shipping. Custom Pak use to sell it to the public but now only to those two retailers.
I do want a water based product because I do not want to have to buy a respirator nor do I want to aggravate my breathing problems from asthma.

[sepulchre]

I can't remember where I got mine but it wasn't Mojo. I don't have asthma but I don't recall it having much of an odor. However, my last couple of cabs I didn't use Tolex so it's been awhile. I didn't buy a gallon, I got a couple of quarts and it was probably comparatively expensive. But it did work very well - the edges I did with it are still holding fast with no help.

[tkc58]

I'm thinking you got it from here: http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... -Glue.html

[sepulchre]

Yep, that's the place.

[tkc58]

So Veneersupply.com and antique electronics supply sells the same exact stuff as mentioned in Casey4s tolex totorial as Custom Paks CP-1386.

[tkc58]

Very interested in this that I have copied and pasted here,,,,,,

"I've also read online where some have used a water based contact cement on the edges and corners AND "flooring Adhesive", "Carpet Adhesive" or "Vinyl tile Adhesive" on the larger flat areas, IF you have used this method PLEASE share exactly what you used and how you used it AND how well it worked OR did NOT work." These flooring Adhesives for the most part cost about $10-13 a gallon so I could use one of them and buy a 1 quart size of the water based Contact Cement for around $18-$20 for a total glue expense of about $33 total,,,,,,, BUT I would only do it IF it works well and will last. That's why I want to here from people who have actually used this stuff.......... let's hear it guys!

[Phil_S]

Long commentary on floor adhesive...

I did a bathroom floor over a year ago with commercial grade VCT. The adhesive is applied with a trowel and the tile is then placed on it and rolled with a 100 lb roller. I didn't have the 100 lb roller, so I used something less than adequate and put my body weight on it, which I am guessing was no more than the equivalent force of 40-50 lb. The floor is still doing fine.

The problem with this adhesive is that it doesn't stay open very long. If you are using it to apply tolex, you'll need to be fast and accurate.

I installed Amtico and bought the adhesive offered by the tile manufacturer. I figured, just in case there's some special interaction between the products, I wasn't going to do all that work for nothing. The fine notch trowed specified was difficult to find, but not impossible, and it cost more than what they sell in Blowes and Home Despot. It is always worth it to get the correct tool. It applied a rather thin looking layer of adhesive, but it turned out to the right amount.

Now, the thing about this process is that the notched trowel puts down the adhesive like this: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Then you lay the tile. Then you roll the tile with a lot of weight. Rolling forces the adhesive to level. So you have to be quick.

I'm not sure you can use a product like this for tolex and get it applied evenly. I suppose you smear it on thin using a trowel without notches and then do your best to roll the tolex after you apply it. I would be wary of using such an adhesive.

Remember, the tile is not porous. So it cooperates in the leveling process. I'm not sure what you get with tolex which will have a semi-porous backing.

Don't know if this is helpful. Good luck on your project!

[tkc58]

The problem with this adhesive is that it doesn't stay open very long. If you are using it to apply tolex, you'll need to be fast and accurate.

Thanks for the reply "Phil_S,
So you used something like this on your floor, just a different brand, correct?

http://www.robertsconsolidated.com/file ... 57_1_1.pdf

I've had a few name this type of Adhesive as a possibility and I've had a few mention a "All purpose Floor adhesive" as a possibility.

Unless someone steps forward saying he has used an actual flooring adhesive on a tolex job with good luck, I'll most likely buy a quart of the stuff and try it on a small piece of tolex on some wood when I get closer to starting the builds. And in the meantime I'll keep waiting for more info to be posted.

The below is directly from the info sheet at the link and unless I am not understanding it, there is a fair amount of time for me to get things done before it's too late, correct?

"Physical Characteristics
Open Time:Up to 60 minutes
Working Time:24 hours
Shelf Life: One year in unopened container
Protect from freezing

Application and Installation: Spread adhesive uniformly. Allow adhesive to turn clear and become tacky. When touched with a finger the adhesive should not transfer to the finger. The amount of time in which the adhesive becomes tacky will vary with temperature and humidity. The higher the temperature and the lower the humidity the faster the adhesive will tack. Adhesive will remain tacky for approximately 8 to 12 hours. If tile is not installed as soon as the adhesive has become tacky, it is important to ensure that no contaminants (dust, etc.) settle on the surface of the
adhesive prior to installing flooring as this may result in a bond failure.
Gently place vinyl composition tile onto the adhesive and reposition as necessary. Once positioned press firmly into place. Roll flooring with
manufacturer’s recommended roller, such as Roberts 10-952 100 lb. roller.
After Installation: Restrict foot traffic and moving of heavy objects for 24
to 48 hours to allow adhesive to cure properly."

[Phazor]

Just got done with a cab and used Hyde glue with a double boiler pan. It was a bit of learning curve but if your in a warm room, it works really well. Main thing is to have your plan together for your cut and tuck around corners and such. I followed and old amp I had to match to the style done on my new covered cabinet. Hyde glue was what was used for the old amp. Cost $20 for 1 lb. and I used about 2/3 of the 1 lb. bag. I covered all surfaces and came back to the back panels a week later. I just reheated and added a little more glue and finished up. The smell of the glue is not good but its not harmful like other glues are to my knowledge.

[tkc58]

Thanks Phazor, for the info. I don't think I'm gonna go a "Hyde" glue route, I guess the thought of having to heat it and work pretty fast is a little intimidating to me since these 4 cabs and 2 rack cases will be my very first time out to Tolex anything. I really want to stay with stuff that is water based and does NOT use heat. I guess I'd be ok with using my heat gun to help make the Tolex a little more pliable around the edges but not for any other reason. Guess I'm just a big chicken.

[pops]

Hyde glue is a great glue, it will stick to itself so easier if something comes loose. Remember when you heat it the first time let it cool and then heat it the second time before you use it, does something to the glue that makes it better. At least that is what i was taught for repairing violins by the instructor teaching the violin course.

[tkc58]

Thanks for taking the time Pops to reply to this thread. I understand the fact that Hyde Glue is what Fender originally used and that it's great BUT I really want to stay with a cold glue and water based at that when I do my builds.

IF I have to I guess I'll get the regular Tolex glue BUT IF at all possible I would like to use a lower cost "alternate glue" at the very least on the flats of the boxes (everywhere if it works well enough) and a water based Contact Cement on all the seam, corners, folds, fronts and backs and so forth.

[tkc58]

At this point, I'm considering these options:
Dap Weldwood Non Flammable 1 gal, $37.98, by itself,

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Weldwood ... /202588232

OR

Roberts 2057 1 gallon at $13.27 for the "flats"

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-2057 ... er_reviews

WITH this for the corners/seams:

Roberts R1030 1 Quart, $19.97,

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-1-qt ... /204509688

OR

Robert sR1030 1 gallon, $59.97 by itself.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-1-ga ... /204509689

OR

the Roberts 2057 1 gallon at $13.27 for the "flats"

WITH

DAP® Weldwood® Nonflammable Contact Cement - 1 qt, $13.98,

http://www.menards.com/main/home-decor/ ... c-7170.htm

Then there's the Wilsonart H2O, my local Lowes has it for $79 a gallon BUT over the weekend I found a place online that I can get it for $65 shipped a gallon.

and of course IF I want the actual Tolex Glue that everyone loves I can go to Antique Electronic Supply (tubesandmore.com) and pay $64.95 a gallon PLUS shipping.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/S-F316G

OR go to, Veneersuplies.com and get theirs for $49.95 PLUS shipping. which is the same exact stuff that Antique Electronic Supply sells, confirmed by the guy at Custom Pak Adhesives who sells it to both companies.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... -Glue.html