I have several "donor" amps coming in. I like to grab these off various sites cheeply for the xformers, chassis' etc and trun them into something completley different.
So after I measure and find the right xformer set, is it critical that tube spacing, xformer placement etc be exactly as the orignal?
I ask because I'll have a Fender style chassis, and a few others coming. If these chassis are not right for a TW, I'll need to start my chassis planning soon. I also plan to use the Ken Fisher stratigy of using whatever is laying around if I can.
Thx in advance. This'll be my first Wreck. I hope my old ears can take it.
Bob, I think layout is key more for stability and noise as opposed to tone. Quite a few people have built 'wreck clones differently and have had some noise problems. The tone on the other hand is more parts reliant. Trannys, caps, and most importantly tubes!
Allynmey wrote:Bob, I think layout is key more for stability and noise as opposed to tone. Quite a few people have built 'wreck clones differently and have had some noise problems. The tone on the other hand is more parts reliant. Trannys, caps, and most importantly tubes!
Ahh... thx.. So as long as I follow the rules on parts selection, and the rules on stability, I should be able to use a donor and get a decent tone.
Bob, I think layout is key more for stability and noise as opposed to tone.
Hold the phone a moment... For a relative novice who is still trying nail down the finer points of this amp building thing, that's a bit like saying that there is no Easter Bunny. I had always thought that layout was ESSENTIAL for a good tone, especially in a high performance amp like a trainwreck. Should I wrote that off as a fools quest and spend time on other considerations? I know noise is a prime consideration when layout is concerned, but I thought there was more to it than that. I've rebuilt my champ probably 4 times with different layouts (exact same circut); some of them sucked, some didn't.
Please don't think that I'm writing this to challenge your statement, I just thought I had somewhat of a grasp on this layout thing and this is something new and different. I'd always held that layout was essential for controlable feedback, bright articulate high end, and the "fighter jet" edge of stability quality that Ken touches on in his interviews.
(Plus, I made an embarassing attempt at a liverpool with a different layout a while back. It was not noisy, just sucky.)
"In this world you will find hardship and trials; but take heart, for I have conqured the world."
John 16:33
There is no doubt that a good layout is critical to tone, noise level and stability. However, I don't know that "in the end there can be only one."
Certain iconic amps (like those featured here at AG) have a tradition around layout. The "Francesca" layout is obviously one works well for an Express-style amp. However, I would bet that it's not the only possible layout that will sound good.
You mention trying several champ layouts, and that some sound better than others. Was there one clear "winner?" Was the factory layout one of the best? I'm just curious.
You mention trying several champ layouts, and that some sound better than others. Was there one clear "winner?" Was the factory layout one of the best? I'm just curious.
Confession, much of my experimentation was done while I still had a very impartial knowledge of certian critical layout elements. Stock was tied for first with another. Two of them were terrible. One had a grounding problem which resulted in noise, another had very little top end magic. Other two turned out pretty similar. I concluded that I had enough knowledge to make a good amp sound terrible, but not enough to improve the original design. Worthwhile experiment, though.
"In this world you will find hardship and trials; but take heart, for I have conqured the world."
John 16:33
Just a guess, but I'm thinking the layout probably had something to do with the chassis he was using. If a fender or marshall style chassis was used the layout would have to be different. Phil
If you have limited time, limited parts resources, limited CASH to buy more parts, or limited technical skills it makes sense to follow a proven layout. Oh yeah, let's not forget limited patience. You'll need patience when your experimental layout squeals like a pig!
I sure hope not...at least in terms of where the iron goes. I'm working with a narrower & longer chassis, so they're staggered. I do recall a post about the wiring of the tone controls being exceedingly critical and that his way is the best way.
jaysg wrote:I sure hope not...at least in terms of where the iron goes. I'm working with a narrower & longer chassis, so they're staggered. I do recall a post about the wiring of the tone controls being exceedingly critical and that his way is the best way.
Makes since to me.
I have a few chassis choices but most are narrower than Ken's so the xformers will need to be staggered, more like Fender/Marshall. I believe that tone stack and tube wiring are both critical so it's important to place these wires much like Ken did. That should not be difficult.
Bob, you might ask Paul Ruby, I know he uses his own layout and has the iron positioned much like a Marshall.
I'd say his builds sound like Trainwrecks to me, and I own the one featured on his site in spalted maple (Elvira).
I'd also agree that the way the tone controls are laid out makes the most importance, and Paul has that pretty similar to Ken's. However his power supply is more like a Marshall in layout if I recall... He has gut pics of my amp on his website...
Dave
EDIT
Link to the guts shots of my amp on Paul's website:
As long as you can build an amp and have some experience you shouldn't have any problem getting it where you want it as long as the trannies, voltages, etc... are right. The normal rules apply, have your voltage and signal wires cross at right angles, not run parallel, keep your grid runs short as you can, solid grounds...
I agree with everything said here... Layout is critical. A *specific* layout is not critical. Ken's layout is great, so use it and you'll have good results. My layout is different and also works great...
if I can. 
