I PM'd RP about this earlier, but the PRS pots feel and sound pretty fantastic. They are absolutely effortless to spin. I am considering a set of PRSs (despite their high cost) for a couple of other guitars, but RP reports that they [PRS] are quite fragile, which is a bummer to hear. The PRS taper seems to work very well with Trainwreck amps, IME.
Who is RP? Sorry, I am not getting it.
Effortless spin is not good IMO. I like a small amount of effort so that inadvertent nudges don't cause unwanted movement. Although this is probably more important in tight quarters i.e. a Strat.
The Gibson Historics work very well with my Dclone, 5E3, Super, Twin, Marshalls, etc... and work especially well with my Express and Rocket. After using the Gibson Historic and considering the price, I don't know why I'd consider anything else. That pot is lacking nothing IMO, but to each his own.
To answer some of the questions above,
no treble bleed cap on the vol control ever
I don't have tone controls hooked up in my guitars, only single volume control
same guitar, same wiring only different pot.
I've found some volume pots sound muffled or muddy when turning them down. I demoed this to one of my employees yesterday through a Z Wreck with the EB CTS pot then switched it out for the Gibson Historic. He was quite shocked with how much brighter the Gibson pot was when turned down a little bit compared to the CTS.
I've found some volume pots sound muffled or muddy when turning them down. I demoed this to one of my employees yesterday through a Z Wreck with the EB CTS pot then switched it out for the Gibson Historic. He was quite shocked with how much brighter the Gibson pot was when turned down a little bit compared to the CTS.
Has anyone else ever experienced this before???
I have not experienced it.
Perhaps Billyz is right. He usually is. I use the traditional 50s wiring so that is one difference, but I don't think it explains anything. The muffling when turning down sounds like more highs are being lost as the wiper gets closer to the grounded lug of the pot. I suppose there might be a capacitance that is markedly increasing as the wiper approaches. This would bleed more and more highs to ground. I would expect this to happen in any pot to some degree, but perhaps it is happening more severely in some pots due to construction.
vibratoking wrote:Who is RP? Sorry, I am not getting it.
randalp3000
vibratoking wrote:Effortless spin is not good IMO. I like a small amount of effort so that inadvertent nudges don't cause unwanted movement. Although this is probably more important in tight quarters i.e. a Strat.
Yeah, I can see how that would be important with a Strat. On my guitars the Volume knob is located further away so is not likely to be bumped but is easily within reach for volume swells or adjustments. The whole point is somewhat moot though as I use a volume pedal. I have been using the volume pot on the guitar more however since using a TW style build and plan to continue using it so am looking for a pot that does not have a stiff feeling. PRS pots are very comfortable and their taper is excellent with TW amps. I have not experienced a failure yet with one as randalp3000 has but good to be aware that others have.
vibratoking wrote:The Gibson Historics work very well with my Dclone, 5E3, Super, Twin, Marshalls, etc... and work especially well with my Express and Rocket. After using the Gibson Historic and considering the price, I don't know why I'd consider anything else. That pot is lacking nothing IMO, but to each his own.
I finally had some time to compare my '03 Historic LP (with the new 500k Historic pots) up against my original '59 LP (with original Centralabs) into my original Express. The new pots are decent, not quite what the originals are but very respectable.
The new ones do come on just a little suddenly (compared to the Centralabs) around the 1 to 1 1/2 range, whereas the originals just about fade in from nowhere. Luckily though even at very high gain, where you are in the 1 to 1 1/2 range you are still well under the clipping point and still have several numbers to work upwards on the volume pot for your clean tone. At a medium/high gain settings I was able to have the volume pot as high as 4-5 and still have nice cleans. That gives you a much wider sweet spot for quickly dialing in your cleans while playing, as opposed to a real notchy tight range way down on the pot. Wound up all the way they also sound nice. So point is they do come on a little more quickly right at the very start of the dial, but you probably won't be running them that low anyway.
Feel wise they are a bit stiffer than my three sets of originals (in my '59 burst, '60 melody maker, and that I've added to my '61 historic SG) however they do have grease in them that can be cleaned out to loosen the a tad. Instead of spraying them out with deoxit I uncrimped the cans and cleaned out the grease manually with some q-tips and alcohol. I've had some recent bad experience with Deoxit ruining three newer Fender 250k pots, so I've made a note as that stuff can be hard on certain pots. Once cleaned out the new historic pots are easier to turn but still not quite as effortless as my worn in Centralabs but very close. On my Les Pauls I like to be able to drag the edge of my palm across both volumes (or both tones) and ramp them to full up or full down in one quick stroke. With the '59 era hat knobs you can't have much friction or this is impossible. I can do it with the new pots but it just takes a little bit more effort. My gut feeling is the wiper tension is a little higher than the vintage pots, but there's always the fact that 50 year old pots have loosened up too! I bet the new ones will loosen up a little bit with use.
I haven't tried the PRS pots in any of my newer Gibsons, but in my experience the recent PRS guitars do seem to have great pots. Do they fit a historic LP? Maybe folks can comment on the mechanicals of those pots.
Overall I can report the "new" era Historic pots are quite nice (and cheap too) and work well with a high gain Express. These are the first 500k "new" pots I've tried that really do the trick IMHO.
The new ones do come on just a little suddenly (compared to the Centralabs) around the 1 to 1 1/2 range,...
They do come on a little suddenly. The data confirms this. I'd like to be able to look at the data and be able to draw firm conclusions about how the pot, or any other component, will behave. It was mentioned in this thread that some pots get muddy as you turn them down. This has not been explained or measured to my knowledge.
Glenn, have noticed this with any of the pots that you have tried?
Have to agree about the PRS pots. I purchased 3 of the Gibson Historics and noticed very little to no change in feel and sound when rolling the volume around with an Express and my PRSs that got the new pots.
Glen, should be a direct drop in between PRS and LP as they are both short shaft, at least it has been for me on each of my PRSs.
The new ones do come on just a little suddenly (compared to the Centralabs) around the 1 to 1 1/2 range,...
They do come on a little suddenly. The data confirms this. I'd like to be able to look at the data and be able to draw firm conclusions about how the pot, or any other component, will behave. It was mentioned in this thread that some pots get muddy as you turn them down. This has not been explained or measured to my knowledge.
Glenn, have noticed this with any of the pots that you have tried?
Well with PAF pickups there is a slight muddy effect when turning down into the 9-7 range, then below that the pickups actually clear back up. This is normal and happens with both original Centralabs and the new historic pots. I don't think this is a factor of the pots, just the way the impedance and loading of the pickups works out.
was just stating that I agree with the quality of the PRS pots, and that they seem to have a good even taper acros the board and no major muddiness or impacts to tone.
lions den wrote:was just stating that I agree with the quality of the PRS pots, and that they seem to have a good even taper acros the board and no major muddiness or impacts to tone.
Ok cool, thanks for clarifying. I really like the taper of the PRS pots and am thinking of getting them as they seem to work very well with my Liverpool (despite the reported fragility). I wonder who makes them?
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redshark - I did install the Centralab pots in that guitar and I do hear the difference. Hm, I pulled the bright cap, too, a 500pf. Well, just played it with my Champ and compared it to a another guitar with the bright cap and a 30% taper pot, what Hamer uses, a true 30% taper. Eh, I need to plug it into the Express yet.
As to reworking the new Gibson pots, (SHORT THREAD/LONG THREAD) you can just pull the tops and shaft/rotor and swap them out. (The ring on these new models is for assembly because there is a nylon bottom on the shaft that supports things, and - BTW - this is NOT THE CASE with the original Centralab pots. If you pull that ring/c clip, the shaft and contacts will drop away from the carbon trace and your pot will drop out and become hard to move.) This said, you can even swap a shaft and top cap (the type without the c-clip) from a contemporary CTS pot and the Centralab carbon trace will perform fine, and yes, with the stock Centralab case. Which might be good if you have need for a solid shaft pot like I do in some of my guitars. .............Also, removing that c-clip might change the feel of the pot for some of you guys so think about this first. Taking the c-clip off has the effect of reducing drag.
OK, ordered some Gibson Historic pots, too. I might as well. redshark, thanks again for the news and thank you Glenn for reporting on the performance of the new versions. Also thanks for that graph, that was totally awesome to see.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Rooster, I think after reading Glen's review that the old centralab is still the best option but for 13 bucks a piece the new historic pots do the best job posible especially with the express amp. Still we don't know how the new historic pots will age but I'm sure not as nice as the old centralabs due to quality of old materials compared to new materials.
The trick that you mention about swaping the tapers of long shaft pots with this new historic might work but I guess I won't have the need to try this since I sold my Gibson les Paul classic and bought a heritage H-150 which I think is way nicer than the Gibson and all heritages use short shaft pots like Gibson used to do.
This historic pots are the best option for the $$ for sure.
We are on the same page. However, and yes I realize the Centralab has all the mojo, I also think the Centralab, by design, is not the best. No, not complaining about the carbon trace, but the shaft, c-clip, and top cap affair. Glenn's are well used and they are probably very easy to turn. The NOS ones I bought are not so much. From the look of things, the problem is the shaft itself and probably the top cap sleeve - they are not what could be called 'polished'. I can easily see where a few years could help these guys out. (See pic) Basically the whole pot, shaft, case, and top cap are steel with some kind of anti-rust flashing. I don't think the shaft and sleeve benefit from this. BTW, I hear where Lollar is polishing the shafts on the CTS pots he is selling? Something like that and I assume he is taking them apart to do this but I don't know why because the brass shafts of today are very smooth.
Anyway, the good news for me is that a current CTS pot shaft and top cap are interchangeable.
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Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
I quit using Deoxit on pots and faders a long time ago for just reason Glen said. I use fader lube and save the Deoxit for contacts and tube pins. Jacks too.
I use the traditional 50s wiring so that is one difference, but I don't think it explains anything. The muffling when turning down sounds like more highs are being lost as the wiper gets closer to the grounded lug of the pot. I suppose there might be a capacitance that is markedly increasing as the wiper approaches. This would bleed more and more highs to ground. I would expect this to happen in any pot to some degree, but perhaps it is happening more severely in some pots due to construction.
