geetarpicker wrote:Ken's personal favorite with an Express was the 30 watt G12H. However he also told me if you wanted it less bright and not as loud to try the 25s which have worked well for me for exactly those reasons. I also find the slight extra compression of the 25s make the clean to mean even more dramatic, and more similar in level.
When you say 12H, do you mean the regular 75Hz speaker?
No, both the G12M (25 watt) AND the G12H (30 watt) were offered with the 55hz or 75hz cone, so that makes 4 different types of vintage "Green Backs". The 55hz cones are typically slightly darker sounding speakers, though IHMO when they have alot of time on them the differences between the 55hz vs the 75hz cone can be very hard to tell apart. That said there is much more difference in tone between the 25 vs 30 watt rated speakers than the different cone types, as the 25s have smaller magnets than the 30s. Point is the magnet size between the 25w and 30w version makes more of a difference. Ken's favorite was the 55hz version of the G12H 30 watter, but like I said my preference has been 75hz G12Ms as even with the theoretically brighter cone they are still less bright and less loud compared to the G12Hs in either cone version. Some really like the darkest sounding 25s being the G12M with the 55hz cone but they are very rare and I've never ever played any. In my experience both of the G12Hs versions are brighter than either G12M version. There is even a transitional model called a G12H but rated 25 watt not 30, basically a G12H with a 25 watt cone. I had set of those and they are like an extra bright G12H.
In a modern speaker it seems the closest to replicating the old pulsonice cone G12M and G12Hs has been the Scumbacks, and he offers several variations.
Also it should be mentioned that the vintage Celestions (greenbacks) hae a different tone than the later grey and black back due to changes in the cones. Plus the modern G12Ms and G12Hs by Celestion are different too. Hope that helps!
I had a vintage 30 in a mesa 1x12 for over a decade that I used with my Express for the "wet" side of a wet/dry rig. That said, used by itself with my Express a Vintage 30 was one of my least favorite speakers. I have though played my Express through an Orange 4x12 with Vintage 30s and it was decent, seems the fuller low end helped balance out the honky mids.
By the way a great sounding 1x12 is the Bogner Cube. I have a 65 watt Scumback m75 in it and it's the best small box I've ever owned. It's a front ported design. I've had open back 1x12s, Theile port 1x12s, sealed 1x12s but the Bogner front ported really works well. It's currently my only cab short of several vintage 4x12s.
Glen I have an EV SRO stuffed in a front ported 1x12 cab and I agree 100%. I'm yet to find an amp that sounds bad through that box TBH. The Express pairs especially well with that cab though and makes a great portable gigging/studio rig.
Cliff Schecht wrote:Glen I have an EV SRO stuffed in a front ported 1x12 cab and I agree 100%. I'm yet to find an amp that sounds bad through that box TBH. The Express pairs especially well with that cab though and makes a great portable gigging/studio rig.
Cliff,
I recently tried a pair of EVM12L Classic reissues wired at 16R in a closed back 2x12 with my Liverpool and was quite surprised at just how horribly bad they sounded! They sound wonderful with Marshalls and other amps, but man, with that Liverpool, the high end was literally unbearable I immediately went back to my trusty pair of 25W Greenbacks and am convinced the Trainwreck design really sounds best with low wattage speakers. I have not tried a single EV in a 1x12 ported design so there may be something there. The added speaker breakup with the Greenbacks is nothing short of heavenly (to me). I think I recall a post where you said you prefer to avoid coloring the sound with the speaker though. I am playing with full-on distortion so could see how the EV might really be nice with ultra-clean chimey tones.
I have yet to try the Scumbacks but am looking at M75s. I have some G12H30 Heritages I need to try. I might try one 25W G12M and one 30W G12H as well.
Just a thought on ported cabs vs the so called Theile cabs. Any ported enclosure that is designed around a particular speaker's Theile / Small parameters is a Theile cab. It makes no difference if the cab has a round port, square, oval, rectangular port, port in the front, port in the back 2 ports, 4 ports. The internal volume of the cab and the area size and legnth of the port is dictated by the speaker's parameters and the frequency you want to tune the port/cab to. If a cab has a big oval port in the back that has not been calculated in size along with the proper internal cab volume to tune the cab to a particular frequency for a particular speaker then it is just an open back cab not a ported cab. If you do use a ported /theile cab then not all speakers will work efficiently because it's Theile parameters may not match that cab. The tuned ported cab will have a loading effect on the speaker (just like a properly built sealed cab) and will accentuate the speaker's own frequency response. So you really need to look at the speaker that you are just throwing into one of these ported cabs in order to get it to work and sound well. A celestion may sound awesome in a closed back 4 x 12 cab but could sound like pure crap in a Theile cab designed for another type speaker. Or say an EV12L may sound like crap in a closed back cab designed for some other speaker and sound wonderful in a ported cab designed just for it. Of course that doesn't keep anyone from trying a different speaker in their cab but before you write off that speaker as sounding like crap give it a little thought about what the cab was designed for and check out the manufacturer's specs. It may not be the speaker that is flawed but just your implementation.
While the EV may have what some are refering to a lot of treble, The TL806 is ported and tuned to 80 hz and the low end from that cabinet / speaker combination may sound more balanced than it would in a closed back 4 x12.
Each speaker has a slightly different resonance frequency... if you tried 10 different speakers in the same ported cab, some will sound like they have more bottom end than others simply because the resonance freq of that particlular driver is better suited to the port freq of the cab...
maybe find a speaker that you like and find or build a cab that is made to work with that speaker's parameters... kinda like Dana said.
"Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned" - Enzo
I wouldn't use a single 25W speaker with the Express. It's 35W clean and much higher when you count the distortion. Treat it like a 50W amp. Since there is no master volume and the amp is so reliant on the PI/power stage relationship to make distortion it'll either sound lame (can't turn it up enough) or blow the speaker. FWIW I recently noticed that the amp actually works its magic better as you turn up the volume. It doesn't really get much gainier or louder but it seems like the touch sensitivity increases as you turn up the volume and rely more on your guitar controls and playing technique to control the sound. The clean to mean range also seemed to improve.
I immediately went back to my trusty pair of 25W Greenbacks and am convinced the Trainwreck design really sounds best with low wattage speakers. I have not tried a single EV in a 1x12 ported design so there may be something there. The added speaker breakup with the Greenbacks is nothing short of heavenly (to me). I think I recall a post where you said you prefer to avoid coloring the sound with the speaker though. I am playing with full-on distortion so could see how the EV might really be nice with ultra-clean chimey tones.
