So i play pretty heavy experimental music and I just finished the express and it is workin great but just needs a little more oomph...any suggestions?
for an idea of the sound myspace.com/aloversplea
I currently run it stereo with a vox ac30cc2
how to add lowend to express
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: how to add lowend to express
perhaps more speakers? Hotter bias?
Re: how to add lowend to express
Woah, Mark didn't you just post that the bass came on when you built with the Pacific OT? Me thinks you should suggest that here.
To 72fetter, if you think your build is solid, then I say by all means try the Pacific OT if you are not running it.
To 72fetter, if you think your build is solid, then I say by all means try the Pacific OT if you are not running it.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: how to add lowend to express
Nothing beat micing it. Then you can do what ever you want with the signal. Or drive the amp into a resistive load and pull the signal off that. Now you also have a controllable output volume.
Re: how to add lowend to express
Rooster,
I was trying to think of easier or less expensive ideas but maybe the Pacific OT would be cheaper.
I found there to be a heck of alot of difference between my Ceriatone Express, my Express combo (JTM45 iron) and my Express built with Pacific transformers.
I never would have thought I would be admitting that I can hear a difference just using the Pacific trannies. But to be fair all three amps are not built with the same components so not much proof is there?
Mark
I was trying to think of easier or less expensive ideas but maybe the Pacific OT would be cheaper.
I found there to be a heck of alot of difference between my Ceriatone Express, my Express combo (JTM45 iron) and my Express built with Pacific transformers. I never would have thought I would be admitting that I can hear a difference just using the Pacific trannies. But to be fair all three amps are not built with the same components so not much proof is there?
Mark
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ontariomaximus
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- Location: Ontario
Re: how to add lowend to express
Increase the .002 cap to .0047 (the one before the 150k grid leak of the following stage), or even tack on the .0047 to the existing.
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JamesHealey
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:34 pm
- Location: Leeds, UK
Re: how to add lowend to express
This adds some bass but I've found it really spoils the tight feel of the amp, a much better way to increase the bass is to increase the 22nF PI coupling caps to 0.1uF or even possibily think about a resonance control I've had one in my wreck conversion for sometime and although I decided not to keep it.. certainly increased the bass!ontariomaximus wrote:Increase the .002 cap to .0047 (the one before the 150k grid leak of the following stage), or even tack on the .0047 to the existing.
Re: how to add lowend to express
Just be careful. The amp bleeds off a lot of bottom end due to the level of gain (on purpose). If you add too much bottom end, you get a low end roll effect or very boomy sound.
Re: how to add lowend to express
Mark - Yeah, trust your ears here, that Pacific OT has got the mojo going for it. I made this swap and won't be looking back. 
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: how to add lowend to express
I think it may lie in simply changing some tone control values.
here seems to be the settings that work the best with the overall band sound.
dont be confused the setup is standard wreck just upside down.
-so it goes input-bright switch(which is set to the deep)-treble-mid-bass-presence-and the currently uninstalled master volume.
-a change in the value of the bass eq would be nice so that the setting i like would be at 5 with the option to increase if need be.
-the presence actually usually is set to completely down-would a rsonance control help?
-I am also expecting there to be some loss in high end due to the soon to be installed master volume.
-so give me some ideas in value changes. I would like the flexibility to make more drastic changes if need be and have the tone settings i like be at 12'o clock
here seems to be the settings that work the best with the overall band sound.
dont be confused the setup is standard wreck just upside down.
-so it goes input-bright switch(which is set to the deep)-treble-mid-bass-presence-and the currently uninstalled master volume.
-a change in the value of the bass eq would be nice so that the setting i like would be at 5 with the option to increase if need be.
-the presence actually usually is set to completely down-would a rsonance control help?
-I am also expecting there to be some loss in high end due to the soon to be installed master volume.
-so give me some ideas in value changes. I would like the flexibility to make more drastic changes if need be and have the tone settings i like be at 12'o clock
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Re: how to add lowend to express
It would be best to try to increase the bass at a stage as late as possible to avoid messing up the preamp. Install a cut pot as in komet and try various cap values to decrease highs/mids i.e. relatively boost bass. An other option would be to add a depth into the negative feedback is in the Soldano SLO or for an even wilder circuit the Bogner Uberschall. I doubt neither will work as well in a express though because of the clipping power tubes.
Re: how to add lowend to express
The mistake I made when tweaking my amp is that the speaker cab 2 x EVM 12L Classics, was near a corner of a room about six inches from the wall sitting on the floor.
So of course it seemed to have more bass. In fact more bass then I wanted.
I'm sure we are all aware of the do's and don't with cabs. It's just that I have limited room so it has to go there.
I thought I would toss that out because sometimes we overlook the simple things and make it too hard.
But now I have an amp that I can actually use the bass control on and turn it down when it is in that spot.
So of course it seemed to have more bass. In fact more bass then I wanted.
I'm sure we are all aware of the do's and don't with cabs. It's just that I have limited room so it has to go there.
I thought I would toss that out because sometimes we overlook the simple things and make it too hard.
But now I have an amp that I can actually use the bass control on and turn it down when it is in that spot.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: how to add lowend to express
72' - I'm confused by the Bad Cat photo. Did you actually build an Express or is this some Express-inspired re-do of the Bad Cat?
Show the schematic of what you have done and we can give more accurate responses to your needs.
Show the schematic of what you have done and we can give more accurate responses to your needs.
Re: how to add lowend to express
although i haven't tried this,it might be worth trying..its simple.
Since most don't use both bright switch positions..pick the one you do use or like.. use a DPDT.. and look at the fender bassman layouts that use the "Deep" switch on the bass channel. Then wire that to the switch..so you;d have a bright switch,and a deep switch position.. or..you could have it out in the middle position. I do like the sound of the .1uf in the PI on the express, not a huge difference there, but does make it a bit thicker and chunker sounding. or you could try using the more fender value in the tone cap selection. maybe a .047 for the bass cap. Just some ideas to try.. There are different thngs one can do, but..As Allyn and other said, it might be too much,and not be able to roll it out. The resonace control posted is also a good one.. most don't use much presence control ..
the type guitar pickups you use,speakers etc..will all have an effect,so you can fine tune your amp to what you use,and make it come out a bit more to your liking..
I know these stray from the orignal,but somethimes its fun to try other things. One of Kens joking statements on a letter about the forum building the amps was.. "What have you done to make it better" Ken liked people that tried other things,and experimented.
Since most don't use both bright switch positions..pick the one you do use or like.. use a DPDT.. and look at the fender bassman layouts that use the "Deep" switch on the bass channel. Then wire that to the switch..so you;d have a bright switch,and a deep switch position.. or..you could have it out in the middle position. I do like the sound of the .1uf in the PI on the express, not a huge difference there, but does make it a bit thicker and chunker sounding. or you could try using the more fender value in the tone cap selection. maybe a .047 for the bass cap. Just some ideas to try.. There are different thngs one can do, but..As Allyn and other said, it might be too much,and not be able to roll it out. The resonace control posted is also a good one.. most don't use much presence control ..
the type guitar pickups you use,speakers etc..will all have an effect,so you can fine tune your amp to what you use,and make it come out a bit more to your liking..
I know these stray from the orignal,but somethimes its fun to try other things. One of Kens joking statements on a letter about the forum building the amps was.. "What have you done to make it better" Ken liked people that tried other things,and experimented.
Last edited by Richie on Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jackie Treehorn
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:54 pm
- Location: New Orleans, LA
Re: how to add lowend to express
I hate to sound like a broken record always recommending this mod, but try a 39k tail/1k cathode combination in the phase inverter. Way more bass and a nicer clean tone. Keep the bias hot, though; I wouldn't use more than -32 volts on the power tubes.
Another trick I've tried on the v2 to v3 coupling is to add another pole on the eq, not just move the existing one lower. In other words, parallel a larger cap and resistor in series along the existing .002 cap. You might use a trim pot instead of a fixed resistor to dial in the amount of additional low end to taste. I tried this with a .02 cap and thought even that was a bit big. I would start with .01. It only takes a little to get a bit of thump. However, I'm pretty lukewarm on changing the coupling in this spot, although it seems the most popular place to mod. .002/150k seems almost perfect. Parallel a ceramic over the .002 for some texture and that seems right. The PI mod is more effective.
Another trick I've tried on the v2 to v3 coupling is to add another pole on the eq, not just move the existing one lower. In other words, parallel a larger cap and resistor in series along the existing .002 cap. You might use a trim pot instead of a fixed resistor to dial in the amount of additional low end to taste. I tried this with a .02 cap and thought even that was a bit big. I would start with .01. It only takes a little to get a bit of thump. However, I'm pretty lukewarm on changing the coupling in this spot, although it seems the most popular place to mod. .002/150k seems almost perfect. Parallel a ceramic over the .002 for some texture and that seems right. The PI mod is more effective.