PS vs 716 Orange Drops

[robkeeler]

Has anyone compared the NOS PS series Orange drops to the 716 series in an Express clone?

Thanks!

[doctord02]

no comparison - they use different types of dielectric materials.

the only similarity is the orange color epoxy dip.

[Chris G]

Has anyone compared the NOS PS series Orange drops to the 716 series in an Express clone?

Thanks!

Hi Rob,
I have just finished a wreck express,I used the ps series caps in this build.This amp started life with with 716's.The new build probabley dosen't have enough time on it.........but I remember thinking the 716 were pretty bright sounding,which adds a bit of mid grit to the notes......which I liked,the ps don't sound as bright but the grit is still there which I like in this circut,Mallory 150's are to dark in this circut IMHO.........YMMV...

Give them both a try if you can!!
Chris

[paulruby]

(FYI, I'm editing this post as I hunt around for the info, in case folks have seen this change a few times now.)

Metalized Polypropylene: Cornell Dubilier CDE & 930.
Foil and Polypropylene: Sprague and SBE 715P & 716P

Metalized Polyester: Cornell Dubilier DME, Mallory 150.
Foil and polyester: Cornell Dubilier PVC , SBE PS , IC, Mustard, SoZo, Sprague & SBE 225P. (Sound the same to me as metalized polyester.)

Note the PS/PVC series dielectric depends on the choice of voltage rating. The 1KV and lower are polyester. I deleted the enties above 800V since we don't use those anyway. Also note that the Sprague and SBE caps use metalized film for 1KV and higher instead of foil.

From my own experience and from what I'm seeing others report... the Polypropylene caps are brighter and crisper. Polyester is warmer with some midrange grind. I like Polyester in high gain amps and wrecks. I like Polypropylene in clean amps.

I just found a thread over at Hoffman amps with a very good post:

http://www.hoffmanamps.com/Forum/yabb2/ ... 1133719907

Cap Construction info on Mark's site:

http://mhuss.com/Capacitors/

[robkeeler]

Thanks for the info!

I just ordered some NOS PS Orange Drops. I'm gonna change out the originals (716) for these. I like how my Express clone sounds but I can't help but try the PS caps out.

[Jackie Treehorn]

When I listened in a hifi situation, 716P's sounded essentially the same as a piece of wire; no tonal impact at all. Mallory 150's rolled off the top and bottom as well as smearing the mids in a very unflattering manner.

I've got 716p's in my wreck and they sound great. However, I've changed other parts of the amp to reduce the high end. People probably say the polypropelene caps are bright because they swap them in place of polyesters in an amp designed around the tonal degradation of polyesters.

I think a good approach would be to use as few polyester caps as possible; just enough to roll off the top if one is not willing to change the circuit. Personally, I think polyester caps are tone suckers. I like them in pedals to tame a bit of transistor harshness, but in a tube amp I want to hear the tubes not the caps!

I got some Sprague 730P's which are axial metallized polypropelenes I'm going to try in my next build. Mallory makes one, too, called either the 170 or 180 series.

[ODwan]

Maybe a good approach would be to build one with polyprops and if it's too bright change the caps to polyester from the back frontwards just till it's right.
Watcha think?

Timo

BTW: I recently changed my Express build from Mallory 150s to TAD Mustard recreations. After a few hours of break in the tone seemed to be more open, a tad more agressiv and responsive.

[paulruby]

I don't disagree with anything said above. But, for those folks trying to clone vintage amp tones, like JTM45 or wrecks, I would start with what was actually used. In this case, polyester. If you start with something else, then be prepared to tweak.

For those wanting to create a new amp and want to start with the most transparent tone possible, seems polypropylene would be a good start.

[lastwinj]

(FYI, I'm editing this post as I hunt around for the info, in case folks have seen this change a few times now.)

Metalized Polypropylene: Sprague 715P, Cornell Dubilier CDE & 930.
Foil and Polypropylene: Cornell Dubilier PVC (>=1.2kV), SBE PS (>=1.6kV), Sprague 716P

Metalized Polyester: Sprague 225P, Cornell Dubilier DME, Mallory 150.
Foil and polyester: Cornell Dubilier PVC (<=1kV), SBE PS (<=1kV), IC, Mustard, SoZo. (Sound the same to me as metalized polyester.)

Note the PS/PVC series dielectric depends on the choice of voltage rating. The 1KV and lower are polyester.

From my own experience and from what I'm seeing others report... the Polypropylene caps are brighter and crisper. Polyester is warmer with some midrange grind. I like Polyester in high gain amps and wrecks. I like Polypropylene in clean amps.

I just found a thread over at Hoffman amps with a very good post:

http://www.hoffmanamps.com/Forum/yabb2/ ... 1133719907

Cap Construction info on Mark's site:

http://mhuss.com/Capacitors/

sad to say, sprague and SBE orange drops, whether polyester or polypropylene, are film foil.

germ

[paulruby]

sad to say, sprague and SBE orange drops, whether polyester or polypropylene, are film foil.

Well... No reason to be sad... I've updated my original post...