Hi All,
I just picked up 2 Altec 417-8H II's. These are 8 ohm's and rated at 100 watts. These speakers weigh a ton!! I suppose it is the Alnico magnets bolted to the aluminum spider frame. Anyone have experience with these drivers? Using a wreck?
Thanks!
Decko
Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
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Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
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Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
Not with a TW, but I am very familiar with this speaker. This was Carlos Santana's favorite speaker at one time, in a Boogie.
Where to start. Hm. A bright speaker with tight bass. I say bright, yes, but very pleaseant bright with most amps. A friend has a pair in a BF Pro Reverb, for example - weighs about 85 lbs - and with a Tube Screamer and a Strat sounds pretty SRV-esque. Sweet blues tone actually, and they really project, too.
Whether you will like this combination, Altec+TW, remains to be seen. I bet you would like it if you got the volume past 1 o'clock, but at lower levels I couldn't say. And of course, most TWs are known for their brightness from the gate, so you'll be watching that. My bet is you'll seek a speaker with a little more breakup eventually. I run two Weber alnicos (Blue Dog and Sliver Bell)and I really think this is a great combination. However, the Weber speakers breakup pretty good starting at 10 o'clock and just go from there. And of course, they aren't near as heavy....
I don't mean to be negative, the Altecs have earned their place. What you could do is give them a go and tell me what you think. I am very curious actually. One thing I can tell you is with certainty, no matter the amp, you will be heard with those Altecs.
Where to start. Hm. A bright speaker with tight bass. I say bright, yes, but very pleaseant bright with most amps. A friend has a pair in a BF Pro Reverb, for example - weighs about 85 lbs - and with a Tube Screamer and a Strat sounds pretty SRV-esque. Sweet blues tone actually, and they really project, too.
Whether you will like this combination, Altec+TW, remains to be seen. I bet you would like it if you got the volume past 1 o'clock, but at lower levels I couldn't say. And of course, most TWs are known for their brightness from the gate, so you'll be watching that. My bet is you'll seek a speaker with a little more breakup eventually. I run two Weber alnicos (Blue Dog and Sliver Bell)and I really think this is a great combination. However, the Weber speakers breakup pretty good starting at 10 o'clock and just go from there. And of course, they aren't near as heavy....
I don't mean to be negative, the Altecs have earned their place. What you could do is give them a go and tell me what you think. I am very curious actually. One thing I can tell you is with certainty, no matter the amp, you will be heard with those Altecs.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
It is interesting trying to figure out what works best with a particular amp. Open back, closed back, this speaker that speaker. Two 12s, four 12s. You can have the greatest sounding amp in the world and choose the wrong speaker combination and sudenly have the most awful sounding amp on the planet. Like Rooster pointed out, the TW amps can sound very bright and personally, I haven't found a speaker with an aluminum dust cap that I liked with any of my Wrecks. I haven't tried the Altec but I would make a prediction that it would be over the top and ice picky sounding. I have tried a set of JBL D120fs on a Liverpool and they just sounded terible compared to the same cabinet with Green backs or Sammis.
I am really curious to hear your take on what you think the Altecs sound like with a TW, so please let us know your opinion. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall some where that Santana had the aluminum dust caps removed from his 417s and replaced them with paper caps on his Altecs to get his sig tone. I would think that those Altecs would sound great with a Fender amp with them paired with something like a 1 15 cab loaded with a JBL D130.
I am really curious to hear your take on what you think the Altecs sound like with a TW, so please let us know your opinion. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall some where that Santana had the aluminum dust caps removed from his 417s and replaced them with paper caps on his Altecs to get his sig tone. I would think that those Altecs would sound great with a Fender amp with them paired with something like a 1 15 cab loaded with a JBL D130.
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
The Altec is a great speaker. I prefer the sound over the JBL d120. While it is brighter than a stock jensen or celestion the Altec is nowhere near as Icepicky as the JBL. I just built a small 1x12 combo express with 6v6's and the client says he is putting an Altec into it. So I will know soon if works out.
My builds are not as bright as most due to the fact that I use old style caps and resistors.
My builds are not as bright as most due to the fact that I use old style caps and resistors.
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
Thanks for the great feedback...yes, it is interesting and satisfiying to experiment with amp/speaker combinations. After building my first "Wreck", my new quest is SPEAKERS! A buddy of mine has a collection of Marshall 4 X 12's loaded with Celestion G12M Blackbacks/ Greenbacks. I like the slant cabinet the best...Nice low end rumble, saturated mids however I love the chimmey Alnico sound (Celestion Bulldogs). Yet in my experience the Bulldogs can fart out on the lowend. I have heard that the Altecs 417C's and H's have the sweet mids characterized by the Alnico's and a tight lowend and not as "ice picky" as the JBL 120's. My Wreck has a clear and bright clean tone so a bright speaker would probably create a shrill upper middle and treble tone. I will let you know how these speakers sound! Some questions that plague me: Ceramic or Alnico? Efficient or non-efficient? 10" or 12"? Close back open back?
Regards,
Danny
Regards,
Danny
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
I had a Twin Reverb in the 70's with a pair of these. Now I have a bad back 
I really liked the sound of these speakers. I found after awhile that everything sounded better with 1x12 as opposed to the 2x12. I took one speaker out to save weight, and found that it just sounded better. These speakers sound best when pushed hard. Running the 4ohm Twin at 8 ohms helped too as it allowed a tad more compression. I also made my own "beam blockers" by taping a small paper plate, painted black, inside the grill cloth over the silver dome. Difficult to mike it, but much easier to stand in front of.
I also had to recone one once and found that it took quite awhile to break in. Newly reconed it was pretty brittle, but after a few gigs it was excellent.
As for running it in a Wreck? I'd be afraid it'll rip your head off. These speakers are loud and very hi-fi. Tons of highs. Report back when you try iy.
I really liked the sound of these speakers. I found after awhile that everything sounded better with 1x12 as opposed to the 2x12. I took one speaker out to save weight, and found that it just sounded better. These speakers sound best when pushed hard. Running the 4ohm Twin at 8 ohms helped too as it allowed a tad more compression. I also made my own "beam blockers" by taping a small paper plate, painted black, inside the grill cloth over the silver dome. Difficult to mike it, but much easier to stand in front of.
I also had to recone one once and found that it took quite awhile to break in. Newly reconed it was pretty brittle, but after a few gigs it was excellent.
As for running it in a Wreck? I'd be afraid it'll rip your head off. These speakers are loud and very hi-fi. Tons of highs. Report back when you try iy.
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
Nice find Decko!Decko wrote:Hi All,
I just picked up 2 Altec 417-8H II's. These are 8 ohm's and rated at 100 watts. These speakers weigh a ton!! I suppose it is the Alnico magnets bolted to the aluminum spider frame. Anyone have experience with these drivers? Using a wreck?
Thanks!
Decko
I used to work at Altec (1978-1982) in the pro speaker department - built 100's of speakers/drivers - 604's, 421's, 417's, 802's, etc. Yes, those are alnico magnet, aluminum frame, aluminum voice coil/dome - they are built like a tank. Great speakers they are. I'd also be interested in how they sound with the TW.
Ken
Real guitars are for old people! - Cartman
Real guitars are for old people! - Cartman
Re: 428 8H's
Are you sure they're 428's? There was a 425 8H. Can you take a pic of them?Decko wrote:KEC I have the qnty 4 of the 428 8H's which are the 10" drivers. What do you know about these?
Ken
Real guitars are for old people! - Cartman
Real guitars are for old people! - Cartman
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
Those speakers were used by Randy Rhoads.
For a Trainwreck use 417-8c 8ohms
the 417-8h are a little darker
For a trainwreck yo will get a beautiful acoustic sound at low volumes
For a Trainwreck use 417-8c 8ohms
the 417-8h are a little darker
For a trainwreck yo will get a beautiful acoustic sound at low volumes
417-8h
I started using these speakers when I heard that Dumble used them on his early amps.
I bought several and they are by far the best speaker for clean that I have ever heard. I have a Blackface Fender Bassman and the cleans are luscious. I had a Twin Reverb with JBL D120's and the Altecs sounded much better to my ears. These are all open back configurations.
They don't sound as good with a dirty amp. Believe me, I really wanted them to since I was totally sold on their clean sound. I compared it to a Celestion Blue, a Sammi, a Scumback, and even a Celestion V30. The only one it sounded better in an open back setup was the Celestion V30. The Altec does sound better for distortion in a closed back configuration but it also looses some of the "magic" it has with the cleans.
All in all, The Celestions have a much smoother breakup and a warmer sound. The Altec is too bright and it just doesn't distort (even when pushed with 50+ tube watts).
One more thing, these speakers really need to be pushed to sound good. They need more wattage than a 2 6v6 or 2 el84 can provide. I have a Tweed Deluxe clone and it sounds awful with the Altec. The Deluxe sounds tons better with the original P12p that is in it. I have a Trainwreck clone with a 2 el84 output section and I haven even bothered to hook it up to the Altec. I know it is going to sound worse than the Deluxe.
Mike
I bought several and they are by far the best speaker for clean that I have ever heard. I have a Blackface Fender Bassman and the cleans are luscious. I had a Twin Reverb with JBL D120's and the Altecs sounded much better to my ears. These are all open back configurations.
They don't sound as good with a dirty amp. Believe me, I really wanted them to since I was totally sold on their clean sound. I compared it to a Celestion Blue, a Sammi, a Scumback, and even a Celestion V30. The only one it sounded better in an open back setup was the Celestion V30. The Altec does sound better for distortion in a closed back configuration but it also looses some of the "magic" it has with the cleans.
All in all, The Celestions have a much smoother breakup and a warmer sound. The Altec is too bright and it just doesn't distort (even when pushed with 50+ tube watts).
One more thing, these speakers really need to be pushed to sound good. They need more wattage than a 2 6v6 or 2 el84 can provide. I have a Tweed Deluxe clone and it sounds awful with the Altec. The Deluxe sounds tons better with the original P12p that is in it. I have a Trainwreck clone with a 2 el84 output section and I haven even bothered to hook it up to the Altec. I know it is going to sound worse than the Deluxe.
Mike
Re: Altec 417-8H II's sound for a wreck?
Hi All,
I tried the Altec's. You are right. These do not sound good with the Wreck. I loaded the Altec in a 1X12 closed back. It sounded sterile to say the least. I will keep these speakers for another build. The Avatar 2X12 open back with Celestion G12H and Eminence Redcoat was most pleasing!
Danny
I tried the Altec's. You are right. These do not sound good with the Wreck. I loaded the Altec in a 1X12 closed back. It sounded sterile to say the least. I will keep these speakers for another build. The Avatar 2X12 open back with Celestion G12H and Eminence Redcoat was most pleasing!
Danny