Liverpool with K50 preamp

[Vince]

Hello, long time lurker here.
I've got chassis, xformers and some spare time and I'm thinking about building
Liverpools for my two rocking sons. But when I study schematics, sound samples etc.,
given by this beautiful community - I think about Liverpool preamp with added
CF before PI, just like K50.
Anyone tried this before? Is it worth trying?

regards
V.

[Littlewyan]

I haven't tried it, nor have I heard of anyone who has tried it. What do you wish to achieve by doing that? Just something different?

[Vince]

I haven't tried it, nor have I heard of anyone who has tried it. What do you wish to achieve by doing that? Just something different?

"Something different - the larch" - sorry, I had to say it.

I want rockin' Liverpool - for hard rock '70 and '80.

V.

[Littlewyan]

I'd say a Liverpool is already pretty rocking with the stock circuit. What guitar are you going to be using with it?

[Vince]

I'd say a Liverpool is already pretty rocking with the stock circuit. What guitar are you going to be using with it?

Hamer Vector (2xhb alnico), strat sc-sc-hb, strat sc-sc-minihb, jackson hsh, epi nighthawk, epi lp.
My sons have a little band, I've going to do two 2x12 cabs and two heads Liverpool style.

[Littlewyan]

Well personally I would build a 18W Liverpool and if that doesn't give you the tone you want you could tweak it to Express spec.

A liverpool is mainly for single coil pickups whereas the Express is for humbuckers. However I have an Express (2 x EL34) and at 35W its far too loud so you'll be better off with a 18W Liverpool (2 x EL84). 18W is still pretty loud even through a 2x12 Cab but it'll be a bit easier to manage than a 35W Amp.

Can someone else chime in on this? I know some people have made a 18W Liverpool with the Express pre amp.

[Vince]

Well personally I would build a 18W Liverpool and if that doesn't give you the tone you want you could tweak it to Express spec.

A liverpool is mainly for single coil pickups whereas the Express is for humbuckers. However I have an Express (2 x EL34) and at 35W its far too loud so you'll be better off with a 18W Liverpool (2 x EL84). 18W is still pretty loud even through a 2x12 Cab but it'll be a bit easier to manage than a 35W Amp.

Can someone else chime in on this? I know some people have made a 18W Liverpool with the Express pre amp.

They need more powerfull amps - they have combos 1x12, 15W now.
But for clubs it's too little. I've got xformers, chassis, and tubes for 4xEL84
and I seek some advice. If 'pool is for sc - then I must go to Rocket?

[Littlewyan]

The Rocket will have less gain. The Liverpool and Express both have a similar level of gain. Liverpool for Single Coils, Express for Humbuckers.

Also what are these 15W amps? As you have to remember this is a clean wattage rating. The Liverpool, Express and Rocket all distort the power amp. The Express is rated for 35W but when its distorted (which is 99% of the time) it actually puts out about 75W! So a 18W Liverpool will be a LOT louder than those 15W amps, assuming the 15W Amps don't distort the power amp. Plus adding an extra speaker will you give you a big volume increase.

[didit]

They need more powerfull amps - they have combos 1x12, 15W now.
But for clubs it's too little. I've got xformers, chassis, and tubes for 4xEL84
and I seek some advice. If 'pool is for sc - then I must go to Rocket?

One of each, get two distinct voices. Tweak if necessary. Expect "too loud" results so ear protection recommended.

Best .. Ian

[sliberty]

I am not sure that I feel the same way about Liverpool for SC and Express for HB. Not saying I am right, just my feelings.

To me, an Express is a beast that can work really well with either SC or HB guitars, but I prefer a toned down version of the Express myself. I find it gets too overdriven and too compressed too quickly for my taste. So I use a split plate load to tame the beast a bit while retaining much of its character.

I've only ever heard Liverpools once, back in 2006 at an AmpFest here in NJ. I preferred the Express. I felt that the Liverpool was a bit grainy and harsh as it went into overdrive. That might have been ear fatigue (lots of loud amps that day) or it might have been that the Expresses I heard that day were better tuned in than the Liverpools I hard that day. Who knows.

As for the Rocket, it is a very different animal. Much lower gain, more chimey for rhythm guitar, smoother more gradual overdrive - not an 80's tone in my book. But awesome if you like an AC30 or an AC15 type of amp.

Personally, I built a couple of Express amps and a couple of Rocket amps. Eventually, when I start thinning the herd, the Rockets will go, and I'll keep an Express. But again, mine is toned down.

Also, these amps all react well to a VVR, so if you need the ability to play with 30+ watts, but sometimes that is too much, you are not out of luck.

[Vince]

I'm limited to 4xEL84 now. And my B+ will be in 300VDC ballrom - classA,
about 25W from EL84 quartet p-p.
Thanks for you all - all suggestions are good, I have to rethink my steps.
Maybe EL84 fixed-bias, maybe one amp just Liverpool and another with CF
before PI?
I want to do PPIMV - I made it in express-clone and it works perfect!
I want to plan and drill chassis now, and tagboards.

I try to post my progress (maybe no degress

[Littlewyan]

O well just build a standard Liverpool but with the PPIMV (I probably should have thought of that earlier). If you're really unsure that the standard Liverpool won't be enough then leave a few extra turrets on your board so you can rewire it with a CF . The Liverpool is quite gainy though I must say! I'm pretty sure its on par with an Express and believe me there is plenty on tap.

[Vince]

O well just build a standard Liverpool but with the PPIMV (I probably should have thought of that earlier). If you're really unsure that the standard Liverpool won't be enough then leave a few extra turrets on your board so you can rewire it with a CF . The Liverpool is quite gainy though I must say! I'm pretty sure its on par with an Express and believe me there is plenty on tap.

You're right! Than you all!

[Vince]

I do some net research, and I think - I "invented" Aero 33