Express build for heavy rock / metal

[dsfarrell]

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Have been lurking for the past week or so, and I think it's time to make a post. I ordered the Express kit from triodeusa. They provide a layout, which is pretty much the same as the one here, but they don't provide anything else like instructions or a schematic. In my many google searches for advice, I found this site. It seems like you guys have way more trainwreck specific info than anywhere else on the web, so now I'm here.

I always try to figure things out on my own and will try to minimize questions. But I'd like to run things by you guys as I go.

First of all, I guess I should give a little info about myself and my hopes/expectations of the amp. I play mainly metal and heavy rock. My side project website is alltoash.com. I'm not concerned with keeping the amp 100% traditional. Just want a good sounding high gain amp.

This is my first amp build, and will be my first tube amp. (I know, not the best one to get started on). But I have worked with small electronics as a hobby for a while now, as well as being an instrumentation tech for my job. I regularly work with 480v 3 phase power. So I'm used to being careful around high voltages. I know to make sure caps are discharged when working anywhere in the circuit.

I can read a schematic, and check everything back and forth between that and the layout. I've read the building guide PDF here. And also read a bunch more on these boards. The main thing with building tube amps that I don't have experience in is how much the placement of wires matters. I do have to take things like that into consideration somewhat in electrical cabinets when running say a 24vdc 4-20ma signal near 480vac power. Never running wires with vastly different signals parallel with each other. Shielding when needed. So hopefully that experience will be of some help.

So I'm hoping that with everything I've read here for advice that I can work this out. I'll make sure to document things. I can take good pics if anyone ever has questions or wants more detail. And I'll absolutely be sure to share sound clips/videos with you guys once it's done. Right now, I'm still waiting on a few more parts from triode, so won't possibly be done for at least a few more days. Probably longer.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I figured that I'd use this as my build thread, and wanted to introduce myself.

My first question is what do you guys say about my bias wiring? (images attached) I swapped the capacitor and resistor to make it easier to fit the pot where the turrets are. This should electrically be the same, but I know that there can sometimes be more than that with an amp like this. Do you guys think I'll be OK with it how it is?

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to sharing my build with you guys.

[xtian]

Hello and welcome!

Yes, lead dress can be important, especially in the Express. However, your changes to the bias power section are fine.

We have a member here who built an Express that he plays in his metal outfit Band of Orcs. Heavy! Here's his thread:

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=17399

[M Fowler]

Welcom to TAG and the first place to start reading is the Trainwreck Files section and read the Express build guide. You said you looked at the guide but it does go into detail about important wire placement such as the presence circuit in the Express is prone to problems.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=5691

There is very little difference in the Triode Express and what Ron Worley from TAG has put together only Cliff input jacks etc.

I have used Triode's Express transformer set and it rocks.

Mark

[dsfarrell]

Thanks for the responses.

I had read HobbswheresCalvins build thread as well as his post where he linked to a live recording and their myspace. Kind of sucks that the live recording wasn't just the express, and wasn't the best recording. And the myspace link no longer works. But from some of the demo videos I've seem, I believe it will do just fine.

And that build guide is great. I've already read it, but quickly. As I do each step I will pay closer attention to each section. And I will probably read it and go over everything again before I fire up the amp for the first time. If I run into problems, I'll consult the guide and/or ask you guys.

I also ordered the parts to do the PPIMV and Presonance mods. I'm gonna build it exactly to the layout/schematic first though. If I feel I need those, I'll add them in later. I figure I should hear it as it should be first, plus no need to make it more complicated until I get it working.

I'll go ahead and solder all the turrets on the power board that don't have additional wires to add to them. There's alot I can't finish yet because I'm still waiting on a few parts. But trying to get what I can ready.

[donzoid]

I think you are off to a good start....welcome to the forum. I just built my first amp (also an Express) and am a heavy rock/metal player.

One note I wanted to make was, that cement block resistor gets fairly hot. I elevated mine off the board about 3/16" for better heat dispersion.

Lead dress on these is way critical, so as Mark said, look at Ron Worley's guide. I used it all the way through mine (after reading through it, twice). It's packed full of great useful info.

[dsfarrell]

Donzoid, I followed your advice and put the 25w resistor up a bit. I may put some caulk under one or both edges of it to secure it in place a little better. Not gonna fill the whole bottom as that would defeat the purpose of raising it. But Just secure it a little more. But that's for later.


Just a little update. She's put together, and works. Just finished everything today. I followed the startup procedure on pages 44-49 of the build guide. I went to home depot and put together a light bulb current limiter. Was awesome and reassuring to start up for the first time with that.

There is some 120hz hum that is there with the volume down as well. I'll have to have a look around the amp and search these forums for how to track that down.

There's some weird high pitched noises that I sometimes hear when I turn the volume down on my guitar, but only sometimes. If I put my hand about 1-2 feet from the preamp board it goes away pretty much completely. If I get my hand 6-4 inches from the preamp board, it starts making crazy sounds. I don't currently have a cover for the chassis, so I figure that will probably go away with a grounded cover.

Sounds good, and it's LOUD. I feel like it shows my mistakes when playing more than I'm used to. Probably since there's not a ton of non-tube distortion that I'm used to. That's good though,. Should make me a better guitarist. It probably doesn't help that I haven't played guitar at all for the last 2 weeks while researching and then building the amp.



So some mistakes I made, and I'm sure there will be more... I accidentally broke one of the solder lugs off when doing the heater wiring. It was on V5, the first one getting it from the larger stranded wires coming from the PT. Those were a pain to deal with. I bought another octal socket and pulled a pin from it. I figured that's easier than redoing other stuff that was already soldered.

On the preamp sockets, I accidentally let solder flow down though the lugs and into the holes for the tubes. One pin on each of the 3 sockets. I know proper soldering technique is not to keep things hot for that long, but I always noticed when I'm doing something new, there are so many problems that come up that I end up having to do some stupid stuff. I was able to get one of them totally clear and the tube sit flush. I got another one almost clear, and the tube is sitting up about 1/16th of an inch. On the third socket, I couldn't fix it and was starting to manhandle the socket too much, so I pulled the 3 pins that aren't used from V2, and used one of them. I will get another socket and replace them later. But just wanted to get going today.

I partially melted a couple things, but that's OK. I know for next time.

While I was building this, I was thinking this is either gonna be a cool learning experience or totally traumatizing when I go to fire it up and it doesn't work. Glad it's working out so far.


So anyway, I was taking pics throughout the build process, and I have a small studio to record in. So I'll make sure to get up some pics and sound or video samples. Thanks for all the information you guys have here.

[donzoid]

Well it "sounds like" there may be some grounding issues, but a smarter person on this board can speak to that. One thing I can tell you is, that even without the bottom plate on my wreck, it wasn't a huge difference in the buzz/hum. There was a little, but I suspect from the locational position of your hand vs the noise coming and going that something else is happening.

Usually it's a good idea to take a bad tube and stick it into the socket before you start soldering. It's a worthwhile ounce of prevention for that pin problem (of course I picked up that pointer reading threads here...) then you don't have to transplant. Pretty ingenious though grabbing pins off the unused triode.

[dsfarrell]

As promised, here's some pics and mp3's of the amp. Notice how there's hum at the end of the song. That's with the guitar volume turned down. I believe it to be 120hz hum. It sounds to me like an octave higher than 60hz hum from the guitar pickups.

Everything in the amp is the Triode Electronics kit. That includes the chassis being steel rather than aluminum. I hadn't yet read that it may matter here when I bought it. The tubes are also from them. JJ EL34 Matched Pair, and JJ ECC83/12AX7 x 3. The caps are mallory 150 series rather than the usual orange drop.





edit: I noticed it cut off my long comments on the two mp3 decriptions. Here's the complete comments for those 2 files:



Here is just the guitars from that same demo. No effects / EQ / compression whatsoever. Mastering turned off. Just 2 guitars panned hard left/right. I was playing a G&L Tribute Rampage with stock pickup, D'Addario EXL116 strings (11-52), tuned to Eb, dropped C#. Playing with a titanium pick, plugged straight into the amp. Old Risson 4x12 cab mic'd with a Shure SM7B. Not sure what speakers are in it. Not my favorite cab, but it's all I have. I've got friends with studios who have other cabs. Will be sure to try those out when I can.




This is a demo of a new song I was thinking about making into something. It's less metal than most of my stuff, and more just rock. Thought it would be a good one to give a quick recording test. I just muted the old guitars, and did two tracks using the new amp.

The drums are not good. Half played by me on an electronic drum set but heavily corrected, half tracked out in a sequencer. I am not a drummer, so sorry for the poor drums. Everything else was played by me as well.

[dsfarrell]

Here's a more metal sounding tune. This one's got the full arrangement, not a demo. I just muted the old guitars, and played 2 new tracks with the trainwreck. This song had vocals, but I muted them as they may be offensive to some people, and this is about the guitars. Not the lyrics.

There are two guitar tracks panned hard left/right. That's all. Each track has a roughly 2db mid boost in a different spot. The guitars both go to a group channel that has some compression and EQ cutting below 60hz and a slight cut to the highs, along with a 2-3db mid boost. That's it. I intentionally left space before and after the song so the amount of hum present could be heard. It's not bad. But if I can make it better, that'd be awesome.

The raw guitar track is like the other, just as it came from the mic. No compression, EQ, or anything else. Mastering was turned off. There are two guitars panned hard left and right. You can hear a few places where I punched in without any regard to doing it smoothly. Not bad though. Since there's no compression, the hum you hear when I'm not playing is representative of what I hear in the room.



Same amp settings, cab, mic / mic position as the the previous post. Didn't touch a thing.

Using a LTD VB-300 baritone 27" scale length with EMG 81 in the bridge position. Tuned to B, dropped A. Using 13-64 gauge D'Addario strings, and playing with a titanium pick.

This guitar actually used to belong to Max Cavalera. LTD gave it to him since he's sponsored by them. He gave it to a friend of mine who plays for Marc Rizzo's side project. And then it was sold to me.



I feel like this guitar and/or the pickups worked way better with this amp/cab setup. I normally don't ever prefer active guitar pickups. The G&L is actually my favorite guitar. But it was easier for me to control the feedback on this other guitar, and it sounds tighter than the G&L. I'm actually more psyched about this amp after hearing it in this song.

Please excuse the less than perfect guitar playing. I wasn't trying to get a finished product. Just a good demo of the sounds I'm getting. Also, may need to excuse the mix. I'm sitting in the same room with the amp to record these tracks. I'm wearing headphones playing back the song, and I have to turn them up super loud just to hear them over the guitar in the room. My ears may be shot.

[geetarpicker]

Be careful with your hearing, I know as I have some mild to moderate hearing damage from back in the 80s before I even got my first Trainwreck amp. I have very little hearing loss actually, it's more a problem with tinnitus and trying not to aggravate that condition and more than it already is...

That said, a good trick is to wear foam earplugs under your headphones. The deeper you can insert them (be safe though) the more flat the response will actually be. Then you can crank the phones and get the music track above the leakage but the plugs keep your ears from hearing it super loud. You have to be a bit careful to not blow the phones, and a good trick is also to EQ the mix with some more highs so that the ear plug attenuation doesn't sound too muddy. With some EQ it is quite possible to get a sound in your head via the phones with earplugs that is excellent, but at very moderate volume levels. This was how I recorded most of my "Can You Hear It Ring?" CD with the cranked Trainwreck amps. Same goes for my drummer he also used ear plugs and headphones. Another option is to buy some isolation phones like drummers use, that are basically gun muffs with ear phone drivers. If you want the ultimate of isolation use the drummer's isolation phones with earplugs. I've also tried active noise cancelling phones like Bose (both the consumer and aviation pro models) but they can get a little overloaded in the bass if you are right next to a fully cranked amp. Still they may be workable depending on how loud the amp is and how close you are to it.

[dsfarrell]

Be careful with your hearing, I know.

That said, a good trick is to wear earplugs under your headphones. Then you can crank the phones and get the music track above the leakage but the plugs keep your ears from hearing it super loud. You have to be a bit careful to not blow the phones, and a good trick is also to EQ the mix with some more highs so that the ear plug attenuation doesn't sound too muddy. With some EQ it is quite possible to get a sound in your head via the phones with earplugs that is excellent, but at quite moderate volume levels.

Cutting the lows and/or boosting the highs would probably help. I drive my headphones right from my audio interface, and I don't think it's capable of blowing them. The volume during tracking is usually at about 7/8 out of 10, and they handle that very well. I didn't have to go much higher with this. I use a focusrite saffire pro 40 just as ADAT I/O for an RME soundcard. And using Sony MDR-7506 headphones, along with some cheaper monoprice headphones.

If I were to cut the lows, I'm certain it won't blow the headphones. So that would both make it less muddy for me, and save the drivers. I'm generally lazy about protective equipment both at home and work, but I know I should probably be more careful.

Thanks for the advice.

[geetarpicker]

7506s are definitely bright, efficient, and can permanently hurt you if you aren't careful.

[dsfarrell]

Oh, I also have a second room in my studio that is sound resistant, has 4" conduit for cables to go through, and has double paned glass between the two rooms. I'm just usually too lazy to use it. But if I were tracking with this amp for a while, I'd probably put the cab and mic in the other room, and just run cables over to myself in the control room.

But yes, I should be careful no matter what.

[dsfarrell]

Well it "sounds like" there may be some grounding issues, but a smarter person on this board can speak to that. One thing I can tell you is, that even without the bottom plate on my wreck, it wasn't a huge difference in the buzz/hum. There was a little, but I suspect from the locational position of your hand vs the noise coming and going that something else is happening.

Usually it's a good idea to take a bad tube and stick it into the socket before you start soldering. It's a worthwhile ounce of prevention for that pin problem (of course I picked up that pointer reading threads here...) then you don't have to transplant. Pretty ingenious though grabbing pins off the unused triode.

Thanks, it was a ground issue. I was following a combo of the layout from triode electronics, and the layout, schematic, build guide, and pictures of Francesa from here. The Triode kit comes with Cliff jacks which aren't grounded to the chassis, and I missed grounding the speaker jacks since it wasn't done on Francesa and isn't on the layout here. I put a wire from the speaker ground pin to the the ground next to V4, and the 120hz hum is gone. The amp now has about the amount of noise I thought it would. Also, it got way more stable. Moving it around and moving my hand around it doesn't make much of a difference any more.

Good idea on putting tubes in the sockets while soldering. I was scared that if some got in there I'd solder my tubes in place, but That's probably alot less likely. And if somehow I did, I'd probably rather unsolder a stuck tube than try to get solder out of those tiny holes. This is my first amp build, and I'm sure by the next one I'll have learned a couple more tricks.


Oh, and I also put in a 1.5k grid stopper resistor on V1 pin 7, and I'm not sure if I like it. It's hard to tell when there's all that time in between. I thought at 1.5k I'd barely notice it, but I feel like it made a big difference. The amp is more under control now, but I have to turn the gain knob up now to get the gain I'm after. And once I do that, I'm not sure it's actually under any more control. Also, I feel like no matter what I do, the amp may just have less balls now. I'll keep it like this for a while and see how I feel. I should also probably try it hooked up to a speaker cab that I actually like before I make a decision. Speakers and mic placement make such a huge difference.

Just glad to be rid of the 120hz hum. Oh, and I used a guitar with piezo pickups to test how much hum/feedback was coming from the guitar and how much from the amp. Piezo pickups have no hum, and when using that guitar, there is pretty much no 60hz hum. So I think I'm happy with the amp and hum. Just a matter of hopefully getting it a little more under control whlie keeping the gain I want.

I've also got the stuff needed to do the presonance, and the PPIMV mod. So I can always do those as well. Just want to try to get a feel for them amo as it is first.

[donzoid]

Sounds great with the heavy riffs and detuned. Mine hums a bit and next time I take the chassis out I may also try that trick of grounding near V4. I used an 820R on V1 and I'm not sure if I'll keep it or not but even with it, after 4 sets in the club it's starting to get a little "ice-pick"-ey but I run the bright setting so probably going to start running the bright switch down instead of up. My band only tunes down a half step to Eb and we aren't that heavy...but I really like the way yours records. Cheers!