Liverpool treble cap and potentiometer value

[harryk]

I got my first Liverpool ready and have tested it for a while. To my ear it`s general sound is treblish. If I remeber right there was some discussion here how you could fix this by changing 50 pF cap to 500pF. It was also told that you should change 1 meg treble pot to 250 kohm. Does this mod change the tone of this amp to less treblish or is there some other way to do it? With respect Harry

[harryk]

I played and tweaked my Liverpool today according some modification ideas I found from net to get it`s sound more to balance. In general basic tone is very bright. After several component changes and testing I finally came back to original values from Mark Abbotts schem. When playing with low volumes at home amp`s distortion is not very pleasant to my ears. I have not tested it yet fully open with my band but I hope that it`s basic sound improves with louder volumes. I would be very happy to get advice from this forum people when tuning this amp to it`s limits. Regards Harry

[Humbucker]

Try different tubes. It makes all the difference in the world. Then, kick those Celestion Vintage 30's to hell - find less raspy loudspeakers.
Bottom end in TW is not pronounced and the sound is middle and upper middle accentuated. That alone tells you you should pick your tubes (Philips and Telefunken NOS's can maybe found here in Finland in repair shops?) and speakers well.
That's all there is to it. After that, roll your guitar tone down.

[harryk]

Hi humbucker! My speaker is at the moment Celestion 1x12 G12H30. I also have Red Fangs but haven`t tried them yet to this project. That NOS tube thing is a good point. At the moment all my tubes are JJ:s which have been pretty good quality in other projects. I am not expecting any huge bottom end, I do not even like that kind of sound and I know and hear in my head the sound I am after. I watched yesterday one more time Kyukendall sample in Yotube and that is something to follow soundwise. Regards Harry Bluetone

[Humbucker]

Just for reference: Tung Sol 12AX7's and Svetlana (SED) EL34's - and Eminence Legend V12A for speakers. I'm satisfied (maybe because I don't know any better )
This works for Express so well I don't want to change anything now.
NOS tubes can maybe be found from old geezers in radio repair shops and such - they probably don't know what treasure they keep...
Hope you find your Holy Grail!

[geetarpicker]

Glen here. I run old 25 watt Celestions, which are definately mellower than G12H speakers. To be honest the Trainwreck really needs the bulk of a 4x12 to do it's thing, IMHO. Also, with my Trainwreck's I almost always record and play live with about a 40' cord, or x2 20' cords hooked in series with an adapter. Everytime I play a Wreck with one cord I think "no, too bright" then I hook the two cords together and it really makes a difference. However I'll also mention that every single clone I've played yet to date has been brighter than my original Wreck and I'm not sure why. As far as time and breaking in the amp being a part of it I have recordings of my Express from way back in 1990, and it wasn't noticably brighter back then if at all. For what it's worth my Express has a 6.6k primary OT, which I hear would make it mellower than 5.2k primary Wrecks. Still a Liverpool will always tend to be a slightly brighter amp with the EL84 output compared to EL34s.

[harryk]

Hi Glen! It is nice to hear your comments because I never played original Twrecks myself. They are very rare here in Finland, most are copies but highly respected soundwise. I got my Twreck awakening after seeing your amazing clip in Yotube. When doing that clip did you have all volume up or not? Many amps sound best with volume fully on, but with 2xEL34 tubes I am not willing to stay in the same room anymore when playing. Regards Harry

[hairyandy]

Glen here. I run old 25 watt Celestions, which are definately mellower than G12H speakers. To be honest the Trainwreck really needs the bulk of a 4x12 to do it's thing, IMHO.

I use old 25 watt Greenbacks as well. I have two mid-70's 4x12 slants that sound great but I can get the same fullness and killer tone out of my smaller 2x12 cabs as well. I have an old re-baffled, white Tremolux cab with 2 70's Greenbacks at 4 ohms and a mid 80's Marshall diagonal 2x12 with a 70's Greenback 25 and a 70's Blackback 30 recently reconed by ABrounSound with a hemp cone. The Marshall 2x12 is currently my favorite (it's one of the "mini" 4x12 looking ones in green tolex with check grill) and I think the hemp recone helps to tame the Express brightness a bit.

Andy