Mark, I'll bet you lunch under a veranda at the beach that if Leo, Jim Marshall, Valco, Sears, Vox, whoever, were building their vintage masterpieces today they'd use those cheap yellow caps or little brown mouser turds - easy to source, cheap, always available is all they'd ask I think. Bet they'd still be highly regarded collectable amps too.M Fowler wrote:Good info on caps thanks.
I also forgot to mention that the basic yellow caps sold by many places I've used in different builds and sound great as well they are polyester. Used in my cage amp 5b6 with good review by current owner for pedal steel guitar use.
Mark
If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
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Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
Last edited by rp on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
double post
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
I agree. Too much emphasis on cap, resistor, and iron choice. The market is drying up on so many components.
A person might as well get some box caps or xicon film caps and get to building.
Mark
A person might as well get some box caps or xicon film caps and get to building.
Mark
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LeftyStrat
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Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
Honestly, there is plenty of tweaking to do that doesn't involve old parts. Leo, Jim, Ken, and Alexander did well with available parts. Some of the holy grail parts Dumble used look like "Run down to the local parts store and find me a 220k resistor."M Fowler wrote:I agree. Too much emphasis on cap, resistor, and iron choice. The market is drying up on so many components.
A person might as well get some box caps or xicon film caps and get to building.
Mark
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
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telentubes
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Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
Sozo guts.
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Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
if you roll it back up you'll have a handmade cap.telentubes wrote:Sozo guts.
Ah, but then you need to actually know something, which us sophomores, dilettantes and knoobes don't. We roll parts because we are incapable of designing.LeftyStrat wrote:Honestly, there is plenty of tweaking to do that doesn't involve old parts. Leo, Jim, Ken, and Alexander did well with available parts. Some of the holy grail parts Dumble used look like "Run down to the local parts store and find me a 220k resistor."
I'd love to try Wima boxes, but then I'd have to make my own PCBs to do it pretty. I once saw inside an early THD Bassman, back when it was the only amp he offered and it had little red wima couplers throughout. Saw the band Luna and guy had one and it sounded simply stunning, it was extra clear and very present, cut through but warm w/ zero ice pick. Wonder if it had other, real, tweaks and not just part upgrades? Sadly, I'm not Adny Marshall so I cling to vintage parts.M Fowler wrote:A person might as well get some box caps or xicon film caps and get to building.
BTW, saw Huss's site, he doesn't go into much detail but are those cheap yellow IC caps from CE Dist actually film and foil??? I thought film & foils had to be pretty thick but after seeing a real mustard open I can write that criteria off.
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
Mojo says the dijons construction is the same as the STK caps they have.
The STK caps are polypropelyne.Soy I guess the Dijons Are too.
I wonder if Stk is manufacturing mojos caps
I have quite a few of those STK .022 caps
The STK caps are polypropelyne.Soy I guess the Dijons Are too.
I wonder if Stk is manufacturing mojos caps
I have quite a few of those STK .022 caps
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JazzGuitarGimp
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Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
Can someone with better eyesight than me tell if the Mojo cap is the small one in the middle, or the large one on the right?M Fowler wrote:http://www.mojotone.com/support/kb-capa ... n-Caps-FAQ
Thanks,
Lou
Lou Rossi Designs
Printed Circuit Design & Layout,
and Schematic Capture
Printed Circuit Design & Layout,
and Schematic Capture
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
I have some that I haven't used yet, I was thrown off by their being polypro, and they are rather fatter than 150s so it's the one on the right.
They do look a lot like the black STKs but i've only seen those in picts. I thought STK was still USA made, you'd think Mojo would be hyping that. Those black STKs must go from the factory to the bottom of the ocean cause they've never been available anywhere, odd.
They do look a lot like the black STKs but i've only seen those in picts. I thought STK was still USA made, you'd think Mojo would be hyping that. Those black STKs must go from the factory to the bottom of the ocean cause they've never been available anywhere, odd.
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
From the mojo site, interesting.
Same overall construction as our Mojo Dijon in a NOS "New Old Stock" form. The main differences are the outside diameter and the look. The transparency and musical quality is very much the same as our Mojo Dijon. The NOS STK Poly Pro Film cap makes a perfect high-end substitute for the Mojo Dijon.
Anyone ever use those black STKs throughout a build? Cap rolling might qualify for a national pastime among amp builders but you sure never hear about these.
Same overall construction as our Mojo Dijon in a NOS "New Old Stock" form. The main differences are the outside diameter and the look. The transparency and musical quality is very much the same as our Mojo Dijon. The NOS STK Poly Pro Film cap makes a perfect high-end substitute for the Mojo Dijon.
Anyone ever use those black STKs throughout a build? Cap rolling might qualify for a national pastime among amp builders but you sure never hear about these.
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
yea I've used em.Ina 7591 princeton reverb type thing.I only have.022 .01 and some 400pf or something like that.I had a chance to get other values but they were white the guy told me he was going to get some more black ones but it never happened.I wish I would have got them.
Naked caps
I'm not the editor of this interesting post
I Copy it from an other forum cause is was SO ! Interesting !
This is in no way a scientific test (as in reality the test specs don't actually vary much), was more of a curiosity into why we can perceive a difference in audible effect that these different types of capacitor have, since test specs show nothing.
After a PM from somebody on another forum asking what a mustard actually looked like inside, I was prompted to do this again. I had previously torn one (and a radial mustard) apart after stupidly blowing one up on my sencore tester, having failed to lower the voltage before testing... These pics must be on my old hard drive though (which has died a death) as I can't find them on my computer so I started again.
On finding a .022uF mustard with short legs that actually tested very high for ESR (like four times my others) I thought this would be a perfect candidate (and not a waste of $25+)
Comment on last Picture
Top is Mallory, next is Mustard, then Sozo, then Sprague.
The next thing to notice is that the Mallories are actually of a metallized film type, rather than a definite film/foil construction. This is very thin, and tries to return to it's contructed shape as soon as it is unravelled. Very, very uniform and closely wound though.
The Sozo's are a definite film and foil construction, although maybe a bit thinner foil than the C296 Mustards. They are also slightly less uniform, and close wound.
The Sprague 716P's are actually closer in this respect, although wider, and oval, rather than cylindrical. It should be noted that these are a 630V rated cap though. The film itself is also slightly different than the others, less strong, creases easier. These are the least uniform, and closely wound. This is much the same as the radial mustards that I recall too, except they seemed thinner in the foil department (although I can't actually recall what value/voltage rating it was that I deconstructed. I installed my last few in a keyboard PCB repair a while back... )
So, now you know why the Mallories sound markedly different. Technically superior, but ultimately lacking that little bit of Marshally goodness. It's not necessarily what capacitors do RIGHT that makes them work to what our ears want to hear.
Now I don't expect anybody to go out stuffing non-vintage stuff with Sozo's or Mustards, you may be radically disappointed if you do. But for those more vintage non-master volume (and indeed master Mk II circuits) certainly seem to benefit.
I Copy it from an other forum cause is was SO ! Interesting !
This is in no way a scientific test (as in reality the test specs don't actually vary much), was more of a curiosity into why we can perceive a difference in audible effect that these different types of capacitor have, since test specs show nothing.
After a PM from somebody on another forum asking what a mustard actually looked like inside, I was prompted to do this again. I had previously torn one (and a radial mustard) apart after stupidly blowing one up on my sencore tester, having failed to lower the voltage before testing... These pics must be on my old hard drive though (which has died a death) as I can't find them on my computer so I started again.
On finding a .022uF mustard with short legs that actually tested very high for ESR (like four times my others) I thought this would be a perfect candidate (and not a waste of $25+)
Comment on last Picture
Top is Mallory, next is Mustard, then Sozo, then Sprague.
The next thing to notice is that the Mallories are actually of a metallized film type, rather than a definite film/foil construction. This is very thin, and tries to return to it's contructed shape as soon as it is unravelled. Very, very uniform and closely wound though.
The Sozo's are a definite film and foil construction, although maybe a bit thinner foil than the C296 Mustards. They are also slightly less uniform, and close wound.
The Sprague 716P's are actually closer in this respect, although wider, and oval, rather than cylindrical. It should be noted that these are a 630V rated cap though. The film itself is also slightly different than the others, less strong, creases easier. These are the least uniform, and closely wound. This is much the same as the radial mustards that I recall too, except they seemed thinner in the foil department (although I can't actually recall what value/voltage rating it was that I deconstructed. I installed my last few in a keyboard PCB repair a while back... )
So, now you know why the Mallories sound markedly different. Technically superior, but ultimately lacking that little bit of Marshally goodness. It's not necessarily what capacitors do RIGHT that makes them work to what our ears want to hear.
Now I don't expect anybody to go out stuffing non-vintage stuff with Sozo's or Mustards, you may be radically disappointed if you do. But for those more vintage non-master volume (and indeed master Mk II circuits) certainly seem to benefit.
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Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
I am not as smart as you guys on here but very intersted in the "best" caps to use in a build. My options seem to be mustartd or 6ps. I dont know the difference but was told this:
The mustard type is warmish, but it could also be a bit compressey.
The 6PS are polyester as well, but a bit more direct sounding. ie like the Dumble amps. This is closest to the Mallory PVC series, which are not available anymore.
Is this true and what would you use for an express build?
The mustard type is warmish, but it could also be a bit compressey.
The 6PS are polyester as well, but a bit more direct sounding. ie like the Dumble amps. This is closest to the Mallory PVC series, which are not available anymore.
Is this true and what would you use for an express build?
Re: If SoZo was... Ken would have use it ?
There are many more important things to concern yourself with when building an amplifier. Caps do play a role, but not at all to the extent that some will tell you or what we can have ourselves believe when we are unsure. I'm sure any polyester will be fine with an Express build, as that circuit will leave capacitor anatomy to be one of the last things you'll worry about. I say most polyester caps should work fine. I personally use Sozos despite the dreadful lead time. I like the tone and I think they're fine quality. If you want it to sound like an Express should, polyester, polyester, polyester... Give both a try and see which YOU like more.cap217 wrote:I am not as smart as you guys on here but very intersted in the "best" caps to use in a build. My options seem to be mustartd or 6ps. I dont know the difference but was told this:
The mustard type is warmish, but it could also be a bit compressey.
The 6PS are polyester as well, but a bit more direct sounding. ie like the Dumble amps. This is closest to the Mallory PVC series, which are not available anymore.
Is this true and what would you use for an express build?
David